Metal Gear Solid 4: WTFs of the Patriots


SPOILER ALERT: This discussion makes no attempt to avoid plot spoilers. It’s highly recommended that you completely finish Metal Gear Solid 4 before continuing if you wish to remain unspoiled
JohnnyMora: So. Metal Gear Solid FUCKIN’ 4.
sirtmagus: So what did you think when you first put it in? That Blu-ray disc. That big, fat double-layered Blu-ray game that won’t ever get on Xbox 360…
JohnnyMora: Oh gosh.
JohnnyMora: Should I go into what I had to GO THROUGH to get it?
JohnnyMora: The most AWFUL midnight launch ever?
JohnnyMora: With the awful Mexican ex-gangbanger who loves Jesus now and thinks that the Freemasons are gonna end the world in 2012?
sirtmagus: Maybe his nanomachines were going haywire.
JohnnyMora: Because that was an awful way to start things. >:c
JohnnyMora: HONESTLY.
JohnnyMora: Maybe it was just Mantis toying with me!
JohnnyMora: But I felt GREAT opening my LIMITED EDITION box!
JohnnyMora: So heavy and cool to the touch~
JohnnyMora: I don’t know why the temperature of the stupid box got me excited, but it did.
JohnnyMora: Still does!
JohnnyMora: And I was. so. excited!

sirtmagus: Heh. I managed to avoid the midnight chaos and went to a Circuit City to get the game and a free guide, which just sorta sat next to me the whole time because I was afraid of spoilers. Turns out it’s a pretty cool companion book. And yeah, the INSTALLATION was AWESOME.
sirtmagus: Seeing Snake SMOKE and warn me about the effects of SMOKING.
JohnnyMora: That was like the only cool thing about it, though.
JohnnyMora: I thought it’d be more… entertaining, considering the gag order from Konami.
sirtmagus: Me too. That whole thing was overblown.
JohnnyMora: And nothing changed any of the other times you installed.
sirtmagus: More hype fort he sake of hype I guess.
JohnnyMora: Same messages.
JohnnyMora: Same animations.
JohnnyMora: Only thing that changed was Snake’s barbecued face.
sirtmagus: And so MANY installations. Why do there have to be some many breaks between gameplay? We already have 60+ minute long cutscenes, what are all the installations for??
JohnnyMora: But starting the game! That was really special! Kojima starts the goddamn game breaking not only the fourth wall, but the fifth and sixth, too!
sirtmagus: Oh, the commercials?
JohnnyMora: Thing is, I only got one commercial.
JohnnyMora: I also got an “interview” with Hayter.
JohnnyMora: On the creepiest talk show in the world.
JohnnyMora: Thought I’d landed back in Inland Empire.
sirtmagus: Heh.
sirtmagus: Ya wanna know a secret? About the commercials?
JohnnyMora: My jaw was dropped for that whole thing, though. It was the PERFECT way to open the game, IMO.
JohnnyMora: Tellllllll
sirtmagus: OK, I dunno if it’s true or not because I didn’t try it myself but
sirtmagus: apparently you can change the channels.
sirtmagus: With L2 and/or R2.
sirtmagus: So you can see all the commercials lickety-split. And if you wait on the title/start screen too.
JohnnyMora: JEEZ!
JohnnyMora: There’s something about that I don’t like but I’ll mention it later at the appropriate time. |:3
sirtmagus: I’m flipping through the guide now and this game is STUFFED with secrets.
JohnnyMora: But before we get into the ridiculous story: THE GAMEPLAY.

JohnnyMora: I have a big question: what are the improved controls everyone’s orgasming about?
sirtmagus: Less buttons to press, I think.
JohnnyMora: For what?
sirtmagus: It used to be when you wanted to shoot around a corner you had to hold the controller like a claw and press like three buttons at once.
JohnnyMora: Okay, yeah.
JohnnyMora: So when did you ever shoot around a corner?
sirtmagus: Now it’s just press one button to hug the wall like Gears of War and you can hold L1 to aim R1 to shoot. Much more comfortable. And I did it lots! That’s how I racked up such an impressive headshot score. \:3
JohnnyMora: Really?
JohnnyMora: I didn’t do none o’ that.
JohnnyMora: Just.
JohnnyMora: Aimed and fired!
JohnnyMora: Didn’t even use first person aiming!
JohnnyMora: CUZ I’M AN EAGLE
JohnnyMora: Okay. So they changed the corner stuff. What else?
sirtmagus: Well, about that, they changed the controls so much so that it’s easier to actually aim and fire. With the handy aiming reticule and laser and over-the-shoulder camera.
JohnnyMora: Wait just a sec there bud~
JohnnyMora: The reticule doesn’t really have anything to do with controls, does it?
sirtmagus: Doesn’t it? Instead of awkwardly holding Square like in the other games you can hold L1 and the camera swoops behind Snake and gives you a perfect view of the action. I think those are vast, vast improvements that actually make the game more action-oriented than stealth-oriented. Though of course you can still do the hide-and-seek thing too.
JohnnyMora: Perhaps they were so good I didn’t realize they’d changed~
JohnnyMora: Also I played through a few weeks of MGO so that may have blurred my memory, too.
JohnnyMora: I will say that the brief flashback to MGS1 reminded me just how far things have come.
sirtmagus: Oh my gooood, what a great touch.
sirtmagus: The graphics, the character, the world
sirtmagus: Touches like that make MGS4 feel like the personal project it must have been.
JohnnyMora: Yeah, the gameplay saw a lot of really great tweaks that made the game seem like it had really matured and come into its own.
JohnnyMora: The Octocamo’s a stroke of brilliance. I don’t even wanna think about what it was like to program.
sirtmagus: All those patterns and colors and textures. It’s a beautiful game. And I never knew you could REGISTER camouflage patterns until late in the game.
JohnnyMora: I figured that out, too.
JohnnyMora: And began registering like crazy.
JohnnyMora: There’s just a ton of really neat touches to the gameplay, like the Metal Gear Mk II. That was such a HUGE addition that I’m actually really sad that it was hardly ever necessary.
sirtmagus: I imagine it’s gotta be your best friend in the harder difficulties.
sirtmagus: But you’re right for casual players, like us I assume, it wasn’t exactly a must-use item.
JohnnyMora: Yeah, but like hell I’ll ever know, I scraped through to the ending of the game just like Snake.
sirtmagus: Man.
JohnnyMora: IT WAS HARD.
sirtmagus: Those Passion of the Christ/Return of the King moments for him. Hit me RIGHT HERE.
JohnnyMora: I guess some of it is forgivable since it’s the “last” entry so we won’t have to bear through alert phases anymore.
JohnnyMora: But just getting caught ONCE on that motherfucking ship making it so that you basically have no hope of completing the level?!
sirtmagus: Oh yeah. At that point I was like “Fuck it, this is my first playthrough, I’m not gonna worry about scores, this is the CLIMAX I’m gonna go RAMBO on these bitches” and I emptied all my clips and ammo and grenades on everybdoy and made it to the boss.
sirtmagus: The BOSS FIGHTS.
sirtmagus: Let’s scream like little girls about those now.
JohnnyMora: I thought I’d gotten EVERYONE, so I moseyed up to the hatch and SOMEONE saw me and about a million soldiers came out of the friggin’ cracks in the floor and killed me.
sirtmagus: Heh. I dunno, sounds like you had more trouble with this game than most. {:3
sirtmagus: Hey, don’t yell! {:3
JohnnyMora: I’m not yelling!
JohnnyMora: I’m RAGING!
sirtmagus: Yell Dead Cell! It’s the END of the game! It’s gonna be a challenge!
JohnnyMora: I know.
sirtmagus: I’d be disappointed if it wasn’t.
JohnnyMora: It actually made me feel proud when I sniped every goddamn soldier on that poop deck.
JohnnyMora: after about a million tries.
JohnnyMora: My first real sneaking moment!
sirtmagus: I LOVE to snipe in this.
JohnnyMora: Me too!
JohnnyMora: As long as my poor mind isn’t hanging on by a thread!
sirtmagus: I think South America (Act 2) may be my favorite stage for that. Such a gorgeous looking level. And it reminds me of MGS3, which is always good.
sirtmagus: I miss eating animals though.
JohnnyMora: Me too.
JohnnyMora: Sigh.
sirtmagus: Every time I saw a gerbil or crow I wanted to see how it tasted.
JohnnyMora: I know a lot of people got pissed off because you were always pausing the game to do something, but it felt GOOD for some reason in MGS3.
JohnnyMora: Why did you ever have to pause in MGS4? :(
sirtmagus: To organize your weapons and items! Just like in MGS3. {:3
sirtmagus: And to buy from Drebin’s shop!
JohnnyMora: I didn’t have to do that too much.
JohnnyMora: The same configuration could be used almost the entire game.
JohnnyMora: WHAT would you have to buy from his shop?
JohnnyMora: You get the gun you’re probably going to use for the rest of the game pretty early on.
sirtmagus: Heh. Yeah, you could. But there were some weapons I liked more than others.The P90 (the one you get from the Frogs) was cool because it was fast and held a lot of ammo.
JohnnyMora: I didn’t ever use a pistol.
sirtmagus: And I bought ammo from Drebin! And tranq ammo, which is invaluable for the B&B Corps.
JohnnyMora: …Was it even a pistol? :p
sirtmagus: No, fool!
sirtmagus: The P90 is a submachine gun. Solidus uses it to kill all the Rays in MGS2!
JohnnyMora: I just bought all the tranq ammo in one go since it was only ever useful for the BB Corps.
JohnnyMora: Oh, I just used the M4 Custom the entire game.
sirtmagus: I switched between that, the Mk. 2 tranq and the AK because I attached a grenade launcher to it.
sirtmagus: Which was useful for that damn little arm-grabby-detector droids.
JohnnyMora: The only times I bought ammo were during boss fights since I wasted so many damn bullets.
JohnnyMora: Ah, I didn’t bother with the wacky droids.
JohnnyMora: I just… somersaulted over them. x3
sirtmagus: They were bastards.
sirtmagus: I eventually just did that, yeah.
sirtmagus: Wanted to escape. ;__;
JohnnyMora: Me too.
JohnnyMora: It’s not worth killing a robot.
JohnnyMora: Unless it’s a Gekko and it makes you feel really good.
sirtmagus: The GEKKO.
JohnnyMora: MOOOOO
JohnnyMora: [SHITS]
sirtmagus: Best enemies ever?
JohnnyMora: They were a pretty great addition.
JohnnyMora: I wouldn’t say that the BB Corps were small potatoes either.
JohnnyMora: What a GREAT concept.
JohnnyMora: FOR BOTH
sirtmagus: I was worried for a little while I wasn’t gonna fight the Gekko, so I was elated/paralyzed with fear when I saw one in the snow in Act 4.
JohnnyMora: :D
JohnnyMora: How did you choose to beat them?
sirtmagus: I reached far back into my Metal Gear memory and remembered “Chaff grenades!!”
sirtmagus: So I tossed one, and it froze! And I just went to town on its legs and then its head.
JohnnyMora: But I only ever found two of those.
sirtmagus: Me too. :-(
JohnnyMora: What I did was I bought a Javelin.
JohnnyMora: And aimed at the head.
JohnnyMora: And it went down in one shot.
JohnnyMora: Very economical!
sirtmagus: And you can’t buy Chaffs from Drebin, so they must have been elevated to special item status or something this time around.
JohnnyMora: Yup.
irtmagus: Oh, plus, you got nice new explosive toys to play with.
JohnnyMora: I used them in the foundry place to get past all the horrible little droids.
JohnnyMora: Who go into conniption fits.
JohnnyMora: And stalk you.
JohnnyMora: In the dead of night. :(
sirtmagus: =(
sirtmagus: So did the rebels ever cheer for you?
JohnnyMora: I sorta wanna see them in a Tachikomatic Days-type special. :3
JohnnyMora: YES
JohnnyMora: IT WAS GREAT~
JohnnyMora: “YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!” [flails arms]
sirtmagus: Augh, I love it. The applause!
JohnnyMora: It made helping those doofuses feel worth it.
JohnnyMora: Didn’t they say before the game was released that you’d be able to choose a side of the battle and fight?
JohnnyMora: In the game you could only ever take the side of the militia.
sirtmagus: Glad you brought that up. I’m disappointed in that. The PMCs are clearly made out to be the bad guys so I dunno if you can even side with them. The game was made out to be this big war game where YOU (yes, YOU!) decide the outcome but, ah, I don’t think it succeeds on that front.
JohnnyMora: I think it was just marketing baloney.
sirtmagus: Which makes the Power Station battle in Act 2 my favorite because you have an OBJECTIVE to complete and when you do, you win. Just like, uh, a real battle I guess.
sirtmagus: So I started to get into every firefight thinking you could win them all or complete other objectives. I don’t think you can, unfortunately.
JohnnyMora: I agree, that was fun.
JohnnyMora: Nope.
JohnnyMora: There’s only a handful.
JohnnyMora: One is that.
JohnnyMora: Another is that part with the bulldozer in Act 1.
JohnnyMora: I also didn’t like how you could never tell if there were going to be infinite enemies or a finite supply.
JohnnyMora: Like I kept trying to “win” the mansion.
sirtmagus: Ah yeah, I watched my brother do some stuff in that Act I didn’t even know you COULD do. Like blow up the guntanks and “win” that battle.
irtmagus: Yeah, me too.
JohnnyMora: I got applause in Act 1. :3
JohnnyMora: But the tank didn’t survive.
sirtmagus: The enemies kept spawning so I was like “Er, I guess I should go on now.”
JohnnyMora: So how about those fucking fighting game controls.
sirtmagus: I think they may have miscalculated how much people were gonna latch onto that DECIDE THE OUTCOME shizz.
sirtmagus: Yeah, if they’re gonna promise freedom they better deliver.
JohnnyMora: It’s rare that Japan even OFFERS a degree of player freedom.
sirtmagus: MGS offers freedom in all sorts of other ways but I was looking forward to winning more wars.
JohnnyMora: Usually it’s freedom like here where it becomes easy to see the boundaries that really exist.
JohnnyMora: But without digressing too much, yeah, MGS does give a whole hell of a lot of freedom. When you can actually play the game.
JohnnyMora: I think MGS3 outshines 4 in terms of freedom, though.
sirtmagus: Hopefully the battle thing is something expansions can uh, expand upon.
JohnnyMora: God, save me from MGS4 +.
sirtmagus: Or MGS4 360. >:\
JohnnyMora: This isn’t Portable Ops, Magus! Keep your expansion packs out!!
sirtmagus: Now that I have a fucking PS3. SO LONG, DENTAL PLAN.
JohnnyMora: Oh hush. :3
JohnnyMora: But yeah.
sirtmagus: You mean the climactic battle?
JohnnyMora: I think I know why Konami doesn’t have a fighting game.
JohnnyMora: Because they fucking suck at it.
sirtmagus: Heh.
sirtmagus: How many times did you die? I don’t wanna brag but … x3
JohnnyMora: It was like controlling a mildly disobedient autistic man.
sirtmagus: It was rock-em sock-em robots.
JohnnyMora: It just wasn’t responsive in the way that it needed to be. It WAS just a really pretty robot fight.
JohnnyMora: And that unresponsiveness cost me my life a number of times.
JohnnyMora: When Liquid readies those haymakers.
sirtmagus: But it was a really pretty robot fangasm fight. The MUSIC, the BACKGROUND, the HISTORY.
JohnnyMora: Yeah, if it all gels together and doesn’t stop for the game over screen.
sirtmagus: I think it’s just good manners to lose to the last boss once! Or twice! Or three times …
JohnnyMora: Several parts of this game lost their luster for me because of frustration.
JohnnyMora: The intended momentum just sort of dissipated when I lost so much.
JohnnyMora: For a lot of the BB Corps. fights, it seemed like there were two ways to go about it: the crazy/awesome really difficult way, or the long, boring, safe way.
sirtmagus: Yeah, I can see that. That button-mashing part had its heart in the right place but my forearm was killing me.
JohnnyMora: And after trying the crazy/awesome way and losing so many times, I relied on the safe way
JohnnyMora: Especially for Raven and Wolf.
JohnnyMora: ESPECIALLY for Wolf.
JohnnyMora: I have no idea how that fight is supposed to work normally.
sirtmagus: Wolf was by far the most difficult.
JohnnyMora: What did you DO?
sirtmagus: Such a vast field to play around in. I think that was something Kojima wanted to do since — oh wait, he did it in MGS3. |:3
JohnnyMora: Yeah.
JohnnyMora: And it felt BETTER because you weren’t being hounded by angry wimminz
JohnnyMora: FOX-hounded
sirtmagus: I used Infrared and a Mosin Nagant. I got up on one of the towers and just sniped everybody to sleep. Then I focused on searching for Wolf.
JohnnyMora: How did you get there without being spotted?!
JohnnyMora: I couldn’t move three feet without one of those bitches screaming bloody murder.
sirtmagus: I sleep-sniped my way over!
JohnnyMora: OK, here’s what I did:
JohnnyMora: I hid underneath that truck at the beginning. The entire fight.
sirtmagus: And used FaceCamo so I was 99% hidden the entire time.
JohnnyMora: Hiding beneath the truck counts as shelter so you never lose Psyche.
JohnnyMora: And I sniped every single FROG in the area I could see.
JohnnyMora: Eventually Wolf found her way over and she couldn’t touch me.
sirtmagus: Ah. Psyche became an issue. Compress and the Muna plant helped out though.
JohnnyMora: And eventually she’d open up to try to rail gun me and I’d hit her then using nightvision to make it easier to see.
JohnnyMora: It just took forever.
JohnnyMora: Making the fight seem quite a bit more lame.
JohnnyMora: But at least it was manageable.
JohnnyMora: The Beauties~~~~
sirtmagus: I love them.
sirtmagus: Writhing in jelly and screaming at me.
sirtmagus: Just how I likes ’em.
sirtmagus: The game’s art design is the tops.
JohnnyMora: Yeah, the jelly-writhing was definitely intended to be… arousing. \:3
JohnnyMora: With their butts all up in the air and their backs arched.
JohnnyMora: I take back what I said before. They actually did do a good job making the Beauties resemble their real-life models. I prefer Laughing Octopus!
sirtmagus: They were gorgeous! True art! What a way to show off the PS3’s power. it’s like the graphics designers sculpted them out of digital clay.
JohnnyMora: But their fights were dull.
sirtmagus: Which makes the nekkid statue at the beginning all the more important. \:3
sirtmagus: Heh. Those were barely even fights.
sirtmagus: So I dunno if they count.
JohnnyMora: “Watch out, Snake! Don’t let them embrace you!”
JohnnyMora: I’d love to just hug it out with them.
sirtmagus: “Strange experience” is more like it. Especially with the black-and-white world and the sounds of horror.
JohnnyMora: Oh god.
JohnnyMora: How you got to hear Laughing Octopus get raped.
sirtmagus: Oh yeah. That was a joy. \:[
JohnnyMora: More like a SORROW.
JohnnyMora: What was your favorite BB Corps. fight?
sirtmagus: Just when you think Kojima ran out of horrible backstories for his bosses.
sirtmagus: Hmm. Either Laughing Octopus or Screaming Mantis.
JohnnyMora: I am Screaming Mantis, all the way.
sirtmagus: I’m leaning towards Mantis because of the puzzle aspect of it.
JohnnyMora: Octopus pissed me off with that bowling ball move.
sirtmagus: You just gotta stand on a box or something. \:3
JohnnyMora: i
sirtmagus: And I loved her mimicry.
JohnnyMora: didn’t even think of that
JohnnyMora: I didn’t like when she’d go into a really dark corner and it was impossible to pick her out, even when you knew she was there because of the radar.
sirtmagus: i watched a friend play and he fell for the Metal Gear Mk. 2 ruse.
sirtmagus: i thought that was incredible.
JohnnyMora: LOL
JohnnyMora: That IS incredible. Incredibly DUMB. What did he think he was doing?!
sirtmagus: Basically, anytime the game plays a joke on you, I love.
JohnnyMora: I do.
JohnnyMora: But that didn’t happen often enough. More on that later.
sirtmagus: Mantis was a joy though.
JohnnyMora: I loved shooting at Mantis’ little puppets! I KNEW they had to be important!
sirtmagus: ME TOO!!
sirtmagus: Did you get Mantis? Or Sorrow?
JohnnyMora: I squealed at how they resembled Mantis and Sorrow.
JohnnyMora: I got both.
sirtmagus: !!!!
JohnnyMora: You didn’t have to shoot at both?
sirtmagus: I didn’t know you could get BOTH
sirtmagus: I just shot at Mantis and he fell off.
JohnnyMora: Oh, right, you didn’t.
JohnnyMora: I didn’t know they were WEAPONS until I was like, “But what’s left?!”
sirtmagus: YEAH
sirtmagus: Otacon told me to use Mantis.
JohnnyMora: Mantis is an health attack, Sorrow is a stamina attack.
sirtmagus: Ohhh.
sirtmagus: That’s awesome.
JohnnyMora: I loved how this was the ONE time they wanted to use the SIXAXIS and it worked like a charm.
sirtmagus: Absolutely. It all clicked there.
sirtmagus: And that wonderful cameo.
JohnnyMora: He… he can’t read your personality anymore! {:3
sirtmagus: I LOL’d.
JohnnyMora: And I wonder what that rumble trick would’ve been like if Sony hadn’t caved in with the DualShock 3.
sirtmagus: Did your jaw drop
sirtmagus: when you realized you were piloting REX?
JohnnyMora: I was pleased as punch!
JohnnyMora: I was reckless, though. ;__;
sirtmagus: I couldn’t believe that. I didn’t even CONSIDER that a possibility.
JohnnyMora: ME NEITHER
JohnnyMora: Now I know what a RUSH it was for Liquid! >>:3
sirtmagus: It was exhilirating. The fight with Ray felt sooo goood. I was amazed how well it controlled for such a hunk of junk. \:3
sirtmagus: YEAH.
JohnnyMora: …
JohnnyMora: wait
JohnnyMora: good controls?
JohnnyMora: mmmmmmmmmmmaybe
sirtmagus: Yes!
JohnnyMora: I hated how cramped the fighting space was, though.
sirtmagus: Yeah, I wanted to destroy everything!
JohnnyMora: Caused me a game over once or twice when I got stuck between two buildings.
sirtmagus: OH that’s ANOTHER promise that was broken!
JohnnyMora: I liked that they gave you a variety of weapons to use in it, though.
sirtmagus: I thought the idea behind the whole game NO PLACE TO HIDE? Like, destructible environments and such?
JohnnyMora: oh yeahhh
JohnnyMora: I was gonna mention that.
JohnnyMora: What hogwash.
JohnnyMora: You could totally hide.
JohnnyMora: All the time.
sirtmagus: EVERYWHERE.
sirtmagus: I kept waiting for a wall to crumble behind me. Never happened.
JohnnyMora: Destruction was totally scripted.
JohnnyMora: I got to find out exactly how much was scripted during that final ship part since I replayed it so much.
JohnnyMora: Certain things wouldn’t happen until I got to a certain point.
JohnnyMora: Like soldiers weren’t appear unless I walked to an exact spot.
sirtmagus: Hmm.
JohnnyMora: Or a certain soldier was ALWAYS blown up by an explosive shell.
JohnnyMora: Hell, a Gekko was sniffing around the hatch at the end and I was getting pissed when a shell killed it. {:3
sirtmagus: HAHA
sirtmagus: Yeah, man. The Gekko. Love those guys. Do they feel pain? For that matter, what are the Frogs exactly?!
JohnnyMora: The most bitter women on the face of the earth.
JohnnyMora: By the end of the game ALL YOU WERE DOING WAS KILLING WOMEN.
JohnnyMora: I’m not sure what kind of message that is!
sirtmagus: But the most important characters in the game who aren’t playable are … women!
JohnnyMora: nuh uh
JohnnyMora: Jonathan
sirtmagus: lol
sirtmagus: The biggest twist of all.

JohnnyMora: OK, time to talk story.
JohnnyMora: Was it worth the wait?
sirtmagus: I’d say so.
JohnnyMora: I’d have to say not.
sirtmagus: Ooooh.
JohnnyMora: Let’s hear your pro argument first. |:3
sirtmagus: Let me preface it by saying I will probably agree with all your points.
JohnnyMora: Go on…!
sirtmagus: I’m just impressed Kojima even attempted to tie together every single game in the series even if it’s under a massive umbrella of often-crippling insanity and senseless retconning.
JohnnyMora: Okay. I can agree with that.
sirtmagus: I was always one to defend the plot of MGS but with MGS4 I’m not even sure if I can honestly say I understood what happened or who exactly planned or what.
sirtmagus: Despite that I was happy to see my favorite characters redeem themselves, bow out and get their resolutions. It’s the characters I really enjoy and that’s why I enjoy it. Even though their motivations/resurrections make little to no sense and were tough to swallow, DESPITE the rules of the world, i.e. nanomachines and surgery are responsible for everything.
sirtmagus: And though the speeches and writing border on inane and are certainly endless I can respect the themes, messages and feelings the game’s trying to evoke.
JohnnyMora: I also enjoy the characters, but when they’re placed inside a clever, logical structure they take it to the next level.
JohnnyMora: And I also respect the themes of the game. My favorite being that war fucks a bitch up.
sirtmagus: Heh.
JohnnyMora: That BB Corps… it’s scary that things like that happen to people all the time.
JohnnyMora: Not the becoming cybernetic killing machines part.
sirtmagus: The torture, and the death …
JohnnyMora: It was just chilling to hear how Wolf had to suffocate her infant brother to survive. Or how Mantis had to eat rotting flesh.
sirtmagus: Oh man. The game’s somber as hell.
JohnnyMora: Each was just more horrifying than the last.
JohnnyMora: YES. The game’s so fucking SERIOUS.
JohnnyMora: Where’s the humor? Where are the jokes?
JohnnyMora: There were a handful!
sirtmagus: It’s definitely not as carefree as previous entries.
sirtmagus: This is a MESSAGE GAME even moreso than MGS2.
JohnnyMora: And that made it lose some standing with me.
sirtmagus: But even that had Raiden running around naked in the climax.
JohnnyMora: What happened to “We all know it’s a game!” winking and nudging?
JohnnyMora: Yeah, you get some cute references to Blu-Ray and chiding if you try to switch controller ports, but that’s it.
JohnnyMora: Dude, don’t try to talk to me about MGS2 as a somber game.
sirtmagus: I think Sunny’s “plight” was a clear jab at gamers, /b/tards and shut-ins in general. =P
JohnnyMora: MGS2 is nuttier than a fruitcake.
sirtmagus: I didn’t say somber, I said “message game.”
JohnnyMora: Sunny.
JohnnyMora: Sunny, Sunny, Sunny.
sirtmagus: Heh.
JohnnyMora: I guess it was important for Snake and Otacon to take the next step as a couple.
sirtmagus: She was a cute addition and made Snake and Otacon out like a dysfunctional gay couple but she looked a bit too much like a Xenosaga character for my tastes.
JohnnyMora: I agree.
JohnnyMora: She had a whole dead-eyed look that no one else did.
JohnnyMora: But AREN’T Snake and Otacon a dysfunctional gay couple?!
JohnnyMora: I mean, who else is the Love Theme ABOUT?
sirtmagus: DUDE
JohnnyMora: Snake didn’t fall in love with Meryl!
JohnnyMora: Snake didn’t fall in love with Naomi!
JohnnyMora: Snake didn’t fall in love with Eva!
sirtmagus: I think you’re exactly right.
sirtmagus: Their relationship was the CRUX of the plot.
JohnnyMora: And it was hilarious and silly and histrionic.
sirtmagus: Otacon clearly loved Snake.
sirtmagus: And I loved that he loved Snake.
sirtmagus: Because I love Snake.
JohnnyMora: On some deeply weird level.
JohnnyMora: Do you think Snake liked him back?
sirtmagus: He’d never admit, but of course!
JohnnyMora: Yeah, it seems like Snake just TOLERATED people.
JohnnyMora: But man Otacon is like the world’s worst boyfriend.
sirtmagus: They even go back to the place they first met.
sirtmagus: That’s romance right there.
JohnnyMora: “I’m called Otacon because I’m an otaku. :B”
JohnnyMora: [Naomi gets a mayonegg face]
sirtmagus: :-D
sirtmagus: But yeah, I loved Otacon’s role. He was nearly the main character.
JohnnyMora: WAS HE?!?!
JohnnyMora: How did Otacon even GET that important?!
JohnnyMora: He was such a horrible, depressing LOSER in MGS1!
sirtmagus: He’s Snake’s best (and only) friend! Can’t you imagine a cheesy voice-over by him if Kojima allowed it?
sirtmagus: “I’m Hal Emmerich, and these are the last days I spent with Solid Snake …”
sirtmagus: He nearly DID do that.
JohnnyMora: What, like it’s The Great Gatsby or something?
sirtmagus: … YES!
sirtmagus: Good call. :3
JohnnyMora: Snake even got nano-AIDS.
JohnnyMora: TWICE
sirtmagus: Jeez
sirtmagus: Snake really went through the ringer.
JohnnyMora: Oh god.
JohnnyMora: He did, but he didn’t.
JohnnyMora: Let me explain.
JohnnyMora: Now, the game LOVED heaping tragedy, often of the bodily kind, onto characters. But what really ended up sticking? Not counting all the times Snake gets SHOT or STABBED in the gameplay and ends up being fine, the worst thing that happened to him was that microwave hallway and he ends up having like zero permanent effects from that. Just singes his suit. But he gets facial scarring from being in a fire for like a few seconds?
JohnnyMora: And Raiden loses like all his limbs and gets stabbed oodles but at the end of the game he’s got his prosthetics and is peachy-keen. They always acted like Raiden was DEAD after he did that shit.
sirtmagus: Heh. Yeah, I knew you’d point all that out and really, I got nothing to defend it except the comic book logic of the series entire.
JohnnyMora: Nothing sticks unless you want it to.
sirtmagus: Right. Which could definitely rob the drama from the proceedings.
JohnnyMora: And while I’m complaining, let me say that I totally drifted off during several points in the game’s briefing scenes or technobabble expositions.
JohnnyMora: I have no idea why they went somewhere most of the time.
JohnnyMora: No clue how the attack on Haven was coordinated.
JohnnyMora: It was just DULL.
sirtmagus: There was a lot of redundancy, too, in the dialogue. It reminded me of, again, comic books or the show 24.
sirtmagus: Serials in general.
JohnnyMora: And they gave you way too many distractions during the briefings.
sirtmagus: The Mark 2?
JohnnyMora: I can switch cameras, boot up the Metal Gear, etc. etc.
sirtmagus: i was glad to just give my thumbs something to do.
JohnnyMora: How am I supposed to pay attention to what’s important when I can be picking up rations in nooks and crannies?!
JohnnyMora: Also: all that fucking technobabble at the end that Big Boss says that’s supposed to clear EVERYTHING up. It’s the least plausible shit in the world.
JohnnyMora: AI?
JohnnyMora: How did Zero set these AIs up?!
JohnnyMora: How do they control everything in the world?!
sirtmagus: Big Boss’ return is hardly plausible too. =P
JohnnyMora: I KNOW
sirtmagus: I was so damn glad to see him though.
JohnnyMora: How many times can you kill someone with your bare hands and not do it right?!
JohnnyMora: You mean you were glad to see Humphrey Bogart.
sirtmagus: SHYEAH
sirtmagus: Wouldn’t you?!
JohnnyMora: If he looked as handsome as that, sure~
sirtmagus: x3
JohnnyMora: Zero… did not age as gracefully. :|
JohnnyMora: But Big Boss and Eva? Mmmff. Class acts.
No. Especially since Zero went nuts and is apparently responsible for everything. I did not like the bastardizing of my beloved MGS3 characters.
JohnnyMora: Yeah, was that a Portable Ops thing? Since when did Eva not have the real Philosophers data?
sirtmagus: I thiiiink since the end conversation after the credits with Young Ocelot.
sirtmagus: Oh, Liquid Ocelot = best death scene.
JohnnyMora: …
sirtmagus: :-D
JohnnyMora: …
sirtmagus: “You’re pretty good!”
JohnnyMora: I… disagree?
sirtmagus: HOW COULD YOU
JohnnyMora: The anti-Patriot plan was so damn convoluted.
sirtmagus: Oh yeah. I have no idea. Suddenly Ocelot’s a good guy who loved Big Boss and wanted to help Snake the whole time.
JohnnyMora: Isn’t it silly that having them point out that Ocelot was the Sorrow’s son would’ve been MORE plausible than that?
sirtmagus: I get the gist of it but the details and the explanatations are so so so so out-there.
sirtmagus: They didn’t do that, did they?
JohnnyMora: Nope.
sirtmagus: Probably the only subtle detail in the whole story.
JohnnyMora: And Liquid’s plan was awful.
JohnnyMora: He was PLANNING on Snake stopping him?
sirtmagus: Or was it OCELOT?!
JohnnyMora: Ocelot was hypnotized, what’s the difference!
sirtmagus: WAS HE?!?!
JohnnyMora: WAS HE?!?!?!
sirtmagus: I DON’T KNOOOOWWW
JohnnyMora: The game didn’t seem interested in saying.
JohnnyMora: So I assume it’s not important.
JohnnyMora: So if Liquid didn’t want his plan to succeed and wanted the AIs erased, why did he need Snake to do it?
sirtmagus: Maybe he was the only one immune to microwaves!
JohnnyMora: Why did you need to be immune?
JohnnyMora: He had NAOMI.
sirtmagus: Oh when they were saying “That corridor is filled with microwaves!” I kept imagining a hallway with microwave ovens just sitting there.
JohnnyMora: NAOMI was the one who made destroying the AIs possible.
JohnnyMora: NAOMI was already working for Liquid.
sirtmagus: Naomi AND Sunny. And E.E.
JohnnyMora: NAOMI had cancer and didn’t have anything left to live for I guess whatever.
sirtmagus: I was glad to see her and her chicanery go.
JohnnyMora: Why couldn’t NAOMI just march into Haven and plug in that virus?
sirtmagus: barely =(
sirtmagus: … true!
JohnnyMora: So tell me: why did any of that need Snake?
sirtmagus: He still had a job to do!
JohnnyMora: I think I just proved he didn’t!
JohnnyMora: NAOMI is the real hero!
JohnnyMora: The one deserving accolades!
sirtmagus: Man, asking me to explain Kojima’s writing is like straightening out a … strand of DNA!!? I think MGS3 introduced all these complications and Kojima pulled off a Hideaki Anno and did things his way, logic and sense be damned.
(JohnnyMora: But honestly, the way Anno does it feels better.
sirtmagus: or even a George Lucas.
JohnnyMora: And more satisfying.
sirtmagus: All three have something in common: they hate their successful franchises. =P
JohnnyMora: Kojima just gave us technobabble and insane retcons and speeches that go on forever on the same damn point.
JohnnyMora: Didn’t you want Big Boss to SHUT. UP. about numbers?!
JohnnyMora: And it took him five million years to die!
sirtmagus: I didn’t want him to die or shut up :-(
sirtmagus: but I did want him to shut up about numbers, yes.
JohnnyMora: What does it say about Kojima’s writing that I wanted the dapper, dashing Big Boss whom I adore to die and shut up? :(
sirtmagus: Jeez. =(
JohnnyMora: And why DIDN’T Snake off himself?
JohnnyMora: He’s still a walking WMD!
sirtmagus: Preservation instinct!
JohnnyMora: He’ll end up giving Otacon nano-AIDS I just know it :(
JohnnyMora: I’m HIV positive.
sirtmagus: I like he wasn’t killed or died or whatever.
JohnnyMora: Well I am of the mind that it’s stupid and selfish for him not to.
sirtmagus: They could’ve left some other things unanswered for that matter.
JohnnyMora: Like where Ninja came from.
sirtmagus: Why not leave it open? We KNOW he’s as good as dead. No need to show the gory details.
sirtmagus: And that goes for many other plot details.
JohnnyMora: I don’t like knowing that the kind, gentle Para-Medic became an evil scientist who toyed with life.
sirtmagus: Exactly.
sirtmagus: Especially since I’m almost positive Dr. Clark was a decribed as a male in MGS1.
JohnnyMora: Or that the genteel Major Zero became… the wizard of Oz?!
sirtmagus: … Basically!
JohnnyMora: Well who cares about continuity?
JohnnyMora: The guy that fixed up Raiden DIED in MG1.
sirtmagus: EVERYONE DIED
sirtmagus: THEN CAME BACK
JohnnyMora: VAMp
sirtmagus: I think it’s fair to say Kojima doesn’t give a shit.
JohnnyMora: Why BOTHER having him in the game?
sirtmagus: To give Raiden and Otacon something to be angry about.
JohnnyMora: He was so pointless.
sirtmagus: yeah, was she under a spell or something?
JohnnyMora: She was under the spell his bizarre sexuality cast on her.
sirtmagus: Ugh. Those fight scenes though. Man.
JohnnyMora: But then again, Naomi made no sense at any point during the game.
JohnnyMora: At first she’s the Naomi we know and sort of distrust.
JohnnyMora: Then she’s teaching Sunny how to cook eggs?!
JohnnyMora: Then she’s forming the fastest physical connection ever with Otacon?!?!
sirtmagus: Yeah, I dunno man. It’s nowhere near as well done as MGS3.
sirtmagus: The Boss made sense.
JohnnyMora: Everything in MGS3 made PERFECT sense.
sirtmagus: It was so nice and straight-forward.
JohnnyMora: And the story was way better, too.
JohnnyMora: SCENE was a great thing for Kojima to focus on.
JohnnyMora: What the hell was his theme for MGS4?
sirtmagus: I seem to remember something about “sense.”
JohnnyMora: We’ve had GENE, MEME and SCENE.
sirtmagus: How SENSE figures in, I’m not exactly sure.
JohnnyMora: Hm
JohnnyMora: That.
JohnnyMora: Sensory ring? {:\
sirtmagus: Snake does get hot in the sun.
sirtmagus: … lol
JohnnyMora: …
JohnnyMora: \:3
sirtmagus: I’m not sure. All this, I think for me at least, requires further thought and introspection.
JohnnyMora: And what the fuck was up with only two codec frequencies?
JohnnyMora: The menu was so BARREN.
JohnnyMora: And one of them was ROSE.
JohnnyMora: AUGH
sirtmagus: Yeahhh.
sirtmagus: Utterly useless Rose.
JohnnyMora: Rose who never had anything useful to say.
JohnnyMora: Rose who never gets accused of working for the Patriots.
JohnnyMora: Rose who never has to explain herself.
sirtmagus: I was sort of glad/disturbed to see her put in her place in the end. “I WILL BE A PROPER WIFE.”
JohnnyMora: Rose with her jiggly breasts and cute haircut.
JohnnyMora: Did you ever speed up her conversations?
sirtmagus: Oh of course.
JohnnyMora: To see her sweater puppies?
sirtmagus: I was transfixed on that hair, man.
sirtmagus: Those graphics are amazing.
JohnnyMora: I agree the hair’s great.
JohnnyMora: But next time look a little further south when you fast forward.
JohnnyMora: Itagaki would be proud.
sirtmagus: Hey, did you get all you wanted off your chest about the plot?
JohnnyMora: Eva.
JohnnyMora: :(
JohnnyMora: Best VA in the game, surprisingly.
JohnnyMora: Lee Meriwether~~
sirtmagus: Yeah, it must’ve been a weird experience for her.
JohnnyMora: Who would’ve thought that this would have so much in common with Batman: The Movie.
sirtmagus: “Uh, WHAT am I explaining exactly??”
sirtmagus: … That’s a great correlation, actually.
JohnnyMora: “Cyborg Ninja…”
sirtmagus: Both are completely nuts.
JohnnyMora: Eva broke my heart several times.
sirtmagus: So did she KNOW that awful husk was Solidus??
JohnnyMora: When Snake says that the driver’s dead… :(
sirtmagus: When she SEES Big Boss!
JohnnyMora: According to Big Boss… yes?!
sirtmagus: So why’d she run into the fire…
JohnnyMora: Which makes it even more ridiculous.
JohnnyMora: And how the fuck could you say she was killed by FOX-DIE?
JohnnyMora: She got impaled and shot at and burned and jeez.
JohnnyMora: She was READY to die.
sirtmagus: And is about 87.
JohnnyMora: That level is where I started to sour on the plot.
sirtmagus: There are too many looney things about the story.
JohnnyMora: Which is too bad because it’s my DREAM level, atmosphere-wise.
JohnnyMora: Fog and streets and night and umf.
JohnnyMora: Noir, man.
sirtmagus: Agreed. The atmosphere was palpable.
sirtmagus: Too bad about the gameplay lol
JohnnyMora: {:3
JohnnyMora: Raven was a fun boss.
JohnnyMora: But
sirtmagus: That resistance fucker was an asshole.
JohnnyMora: that damn motorcycle chase.
JohnnyMora: WAS HE??!!??!
JohnnyMora: He behaved… generally.
sirtmagus: He was SLOW. And DUMB. >:\
JohnnyMora: DUMB?
sirtmagus: Yeah, he’d kept getting caught and I’d keep bailing him out so he’d run to the same hiding place THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION OF WHERE HE WAS GONNA GO
sirtmagus: JUST RUN, MORON
sirtmagus: But the motorcycle chase.
sirtmagus: Mixed feelings.
sirtmagus: It was a stunning setpiece cinematically, but as a game I hardly felt in control.
sirtmagus: Act 3 is high on style but low on gameplay.
JohnnyMora: And the gun they gave you was a POS.
JohnnyMora: It was the cause of many game overs.
sirtmagus: And that must’ve been the 90 minute cutscene, man
sirtmagus: After Raven.
sirtmagus: It sure felt like it.
sirtmagus: Everything you didn’t like about the ending I transplant those feelings onto Act 3.
JohnnyMora: Even though they both have the same problems.
JohnnyMora: But hey MERYL
sirtmagus: well the ending still got me. Probably because it was ENDING.
sirtmagus: TERRIFIC
sirtmagus: Probably
JohnnyMora: She’s a lil’ pistol! >:3
sirtmagus: the most well-rounded character in the game.
JohnnyMora: I totally agree.
JohnnyMora: She never lost me.
JohnnyMora: I was always right there rooting for her.
sirtmagus: Absolutely. And her impromptu romance was a hoot.
JohnnyMora: She has a sort of beauty that’s unlike the other women in the game.
JohnnyMora: let’s talk about Meryl herself for a tick, though ;3
sirtmagus: Certainly. I loved her VA.
sirtmagus: Debi Mae West.
JohnnyMora: She had a pretty great VA, yeah, and a great arc through the game.
JohnnyMora: SHE is the next generation Snake must leave the world to~~
sirtmagus: I agree.
JohnnyMora: And her feelings were always so… complex.
JohnnyMora: I admire that about her.
sirtmagus: IF they continue MGS I’d love to see Meryl and Johnny fighting together.
JohnnyMora: I can’t tell if she loved Snake or if she LOVED Snake.
sirtmagus: I think
sirtmagus: The best cutscene in the game
JohnnyMora: She certainly had a huge bond with him.
sirtmagus: is when Meryl and Snake are chatting at that table at the beginning of Act 3.
JohnnyMora: Hmmm.
JohnnyMora: It’s pretty good.
JohnnyMora: Especially when it comes with how much was left unsaid.
sirtmagus: Exactly. It was just so simple and well-done, and they were just having a chat.
JohnnyMora: I think it helps that Meryl is just so uncomplicated, but complex at the same time.
sirtmagus: And of course, young Snake phasing in and out of Old Snake was a pretty painful reminder of what was happening TO Snake and between Snake and Meryl.
JohnnyMora: She doesn’t allow for long-winded speeches or dubious quadruple-crossing, but she’s not boring.
sirtmagus: Yeah. I just loved looking at her.
JohnnyMora: YEAH.
JohnnyMora: Like I said, she’s not really like the other women in the game.
JohnnyMora: It’s more of a sort of… Lucy Lawless beauty?
sirtmagus: Her eyes did more emoting than anyone it looked.
JohnnyMora: The strong, wide face.
JohnnyMora: I did notice her face had TONS of TLC put into it.
sirtmagus: It’s funny, I noticed the same thing too. I was reminded of D’Anna.
JohnnyMora: Much more than that skank Mei Ling.
sirtmagus: and her sweet butt.
sirtmagus: I was hoping to get at least one proverb out of her.
JohnnyMora: You got several.
JohnnyMora: You probably didn’t notice because all her scenes were horrible and boring and misogynistic.
sirtmagus: Mei Ling’s?!
JohnnyMora: Yes.
sirtmagus: I didn’t notice any of that!
JohnnyMora: How she’s the most ineffectual Navy captain EVER?
JohnnyMora: How she bends over so you can ogle at her derrier?
sirtmagus: Man, that’s not fair.
JohnnyMora: How Johnny almost pinches her butt?
sirtmagus: The camera was centered on every female butt in the whole game.
sirtmagus: EXCEPT Meryl’s oddly enough.
sirtmagus: Considering how IMPORTANT her ass is in MGS1.
JohnnyMora: Because Meryl’s got CHARACTER.
JohnnyMora: Mei Ling… what was there to her?
sirtmagus: Not her accent. =(
JohnnyMora: She was a joke.
JohnnyMora: A total office lady stereotype for Japanese otaku.
JohnnyMora: She never even shot her gun.
sirtmagus: Ah, I guess. She was such a non-entity I didn’t even equate her with any of that.
JohnnyMora: I was just pissed they didn’t get anything more out of her.
JohnnyMora: When they did so much with JOHNNY WHAT THE FUCK
sirtmagus: Are you complaining about Johnny? \:3
JohnnyMora: NO
JohnnyMora: To think that they actually found a SCIENTIFIC reason why Johnny was so lame.
JohnnyMora: And then made him cool.
sirtmagus: Heh. But they couldn’t~~ ;__;
JohnnyMora: I mean, you said it earlier. Their romance at Haven was a scream and one of the best-directed parts of the entire game. So clever in so many ways at the same time!
sirtmagus: When he reloaded her pistol?
sirtmagus: Umf.
JohnnyMora: When they lay all over each other or almost kiss and then remember to kill people?
JohnnyMora: When Meryl rejects his proposal just so SHE can propose to HIM?
sirtmagus: Augh, it was awesome. You know who’s in charge.
JohnnyMora: They were way cooler than the other gaywads in Rat Patrol.
sirtmagus: who didn’t really get
sirtmagus: anything to do
JohnnyMora: But profess their love to each other.
sirtmagus: Which was nice.
sirtmagus: Drebin’s voice actor was pretty swell.
JohnnyMora: Yeah.
JohnnyMora: The dandy of the battlefield~
JohnnyMora: Little Gray, his monkey, was outstanding.
sirtmagus: CHIM CHIM
JohnnyMora: Was that Raikov’s speedo?!
sirtmagus: I … don’t know!
sirtmagus: What was up with Drebin’s flashback to the two people holding its hands?
JohnnyMora: Good question.
JohnnyMora: He had the photo up in his tank that one time you got to look around.
JohnnyMora: Have we seen that photo before?
sirtmagus: If it’s a reference to something I feel dopey for not knowing it.
sirtmagus: But HEY it’s Metal Gear.
sirtmagus: Where nanomachines and stem cell surgery can resurrect and fix and manipulate everything.
JohnnyMora: And it doesn’t matter that you crawl through billions of watts of microwaves you’ll turn out just fine.
JohnnyMora: And your iPod will still work.
sirtmagus: I wouldn’t say FINE but, yeah, he was still alive.
JohnnyMora: He was fine.
JohnnyMora: Oh.
JohnnyMora: I gotta mention something else.
JohnnyMora: Those shots.
JohnnyMora: What. The fuck. Was up with those shots. They became a fucking JOKE by the end of the game.
sirtmagus: Ha, they DID!
sirtmagus: Sometimes they suppressed nanomachines, other times they … gave Liquid and Snake super punching powers!
sirtmagus: Nanomachines: the Metal Gear plot shortcut.
JohnnyMora: AUGH
JohnnyMora: Also: Outer Haven had a Mt. Rushmore of Patriots?!?!
sirtmagus: LOL
sirtmagus: Yeah
sirtmagus: I couldn’t see who they all were.
JohnnyMora: I couldn’t tell whether it was the final straw or not.
sirtmagus: So: Which is nuttier? MGS4 or MGS2?
sirtmagus: Or is there a difference between each game’s brand of craziness?
JohnnyMora: Definite difference.
sirtmagus: For sure.
JohnnyMora: MGS2 is a master in complete control of his madness.
sirtmagus: It’s also decipherable.
JohnnyMora: MGS4 is FUCK ALL
sirtmagus: Which reminds me of Anno again.
JohnnyMora: Nah
sirtmagus: Like “Fuck you, world.”
JohnnyMora: Anno’s decipherable.
JohnnyMora: And enjoyable in the end.
JohnnyMora: Kojima… alienated me.
sirtmagus: I’m very curious to see the discussions that will spring up because of this game.
JohnnyMora: I think it’s hilarious that this game bashes the type of people that usually play it.
JohnnyMora: People that play the FPS games that the PMCs give them.
sirtmagus: That was awesome.
JohnnyMora: People that think war is a game.
JohnnyMora: I can honestly say that I never want to be in a war. Ever.
JohnnyMora: But right there at that midnight launch there were people EAGER to be in a war.
JohnnyMora: I can only IMAGINE what their reaction would be to that scene.
JohnnyMora: Or if they even have enough self-awareness to be affected by it.
sirtmagus: Augh. Yeah. MGS4 does an impeccable job of showing you the AWFULNESS of life. Getting old, war, disease, ruined relationships … Despite the lack of changing battle outcomes the whole war imagery, soldiers getting gunned down and wetting themselves … really affecting stuff.
sirtmagus: That opening cinema alone.
JohnnyMora: I love that this game drives home the fact that you don’t walk away from war the same person you were.
JohnnyMora: All those people that were doing horrible things in the game going mad once the nanomachines stop suppressing their thoughts and feelings.
sirtmagus: Kojima built a really frightening world.
JohnnyMora: We LIVE in an even more frightening version of that world.
JohnnyMora: Where nanomachines can’t save you.
JohnnyMora: It’s like Funny Games.
JohnnyMora: It’s more frightening when you realize it gets WORSE in real life.
sirtmagus: Yeahh. The sci-fi angle reminds me of Mamoru Oshii and his movies too. Oh, wait. Should I mention
sirtmagus: GHOST IN THE SHELL?
JohnnyMora: D:
sirtmagus: :-D
JohnnyMora: OK. Let’s see you justify this one. |:3
sirtmagus: Naw, naw. MGS and GitS have always had a close relationship and it continues in MGS4. The Rat Pat’s emphasis on teamwork, the swiveling eye servos in the Gekko, the AI born from the sea of information (Eva definitely says something to that effect), Raiden’s new cyborg status … I’ll just leave it at that for now.
sirtmagus: The commercials and social prognosticating reminded me of Verhoeven too.
sirtmagus: And the battles with the ships zooming overhead made me think of Terminator’s future scenes.
sirtmagus: Just that Kojima knows his sci-fi, and movies in general.
sirtmagus: The game WAS a movie.
sirtmagus: Sometimes to worked eloquently, other times it was a dud.
JohnnyMora: Yeah.
JohnnyMora: That wasn’t a game.
JohnnyMora: That was a five-part miniseries.
sirtmagus: Yeah. An interactive HBO serial.
sirtmagus: This is definitely the most movie-like of the franchise.
JohnnyMora: And I don’t fall to that whole “I’d rather play the game than watch” mentality lightly!
sirtmagus: And I don’t think that’s a compliment.
sirtmagus: Agreed.
JohnnyMora: Hell, I LOVE Xenogears’ second disc.
sirtmagus: Ehhh. No comment.
JohnnyMora: |||:3
JohnnyMora: But this.
JohnnyMora: Maybe if the glut of cinema had more than kernels of awesome spread throughout.
sirtmagus: More interactive parts would’ve been really appreciated.
sirtmagus: Why couldn’t the fight with Liquid in Act 3 be playable?
JohnnyMora: And more chances to have new ideas used.
sirtmagus: Like Mark 2, and more battlefield objectives.
JohnnyMora: Why not force us to use the Mk. II in a clever way?
JohnnyMora: But no, fine, tell us how AIs do gobbledeegook, Mr. Bogart.
sirtmagus: It’d probably be Bioshock-esque tube-swapping.
sirtmagus: I still maintain my Bogart Boss love. The cut-to-black finish — loved it.
JohnnyMora: BAH.
JohnnyMora: He wore out his welcome.
JohnnyMora: Not a single tear~
JohnnyMora: Doesn’t best MGS3’s ending by a longshot.
JohnnyMora: And Here’s To You can suck my dick.
JohnnyMora: PALES in comparison to The Best Is Yet To Come and Can’t Say Goodbye to Yesterday.
JohnnyMora: Even Way to Fall was better.
sirtmagus: Well, yeah, they’re all awesome!
sirtmagus: But such venom. D:{
JohnnyMora: Why couldn’t they scrounge up something AWESOME for the FINALE then?
sirtmagus: I think you just got something against 60s-era poetry songs like All Along the Watchtower in Battlestar. =P
sirtmagus: AND Westerns.
JohnnyMora: I warmed up to that BSG song. :3
JohnnyMora: But this song was just a little too on the nose.
JohnnyMora: It sounded like something that would play during South Park for mock-emotion.
sirtmagus: Aw man. I disagree. Maybe you’ll warm up to this too! I thought the final moments were perfectly fitting. These soldiers can finally rest.
JohnnyMora: I mean, Morricone’s an incredible composer. This was not the best of his to choose from, lyrics aside.
sirtmagus: I’ll concede to you buttering up Morricone. {:3
JohnnyMora: Not that The Mission would have been appropriate.
sirtmagus: The Mission?
JohnnyMora: Another Morricone movie ;3
sirtmagus: Aha.
JohnnyMora: with De Niro
JohnnyMora: One important question:
JohnnyMora: Is MGS4 worth a PS3?
sirtmagus: Oh ho ho ho ho ho ho ho.
JohnnyMora: lol
sirtmagus: oh oh. Oh man.
JohnnyMora: Inquiring minds want to know.
sirtmagus: I’m thinking.
sirtmagus: That I have to think is probably a bad sign.
JohnnyMora: My answer is no.
JohnnyMora: It’s too uneven.
JohnnyMora: I’m not disappointed with my PS3 purchase because I bought it for several reasons, of which MGS4 was only one.
JohnnyMora: But if I’d bought it solely for this game with no other prospects coming, I’d feel gypped.
sirtmagus: I don’t feel gypped because there’s so much game in there I’m glad I got it. Will I feel gypped when it’s released for the 360 next year? Absolutely.
sirtmagus: But I’ll swallow that bullet when I come to it.
JohnnyMora: Just like Snake would.
JohnnyMora: BTW, didn’t it seem like people were pushing each other out of the way for the chance to die?
sirtmagus: Raiden wanted to die so bad.
JohnnyMora: So did Snake.
JohnnyMora: And Naomi.
sirtmagus: Heh. Well they had so little to live for!
JohnnyMora: Naomi had a rockin’ bod.
JohnnyMora: She had stuff to live for.
JohnnyMora: And Raiden had awesome ninja abilities.
sirtmagus: Did you like or loathe Raiden’s final “badass” moment?
JohnnyMora: You gotta try them out a bit more!
JohnnyMora: which was…
sirtmagus: katana in mouth.
JohnnyMora: Well
JohnnyMora: What else did he have left?
JohnnyMora: I thought it was a bit stupid but so was so many other things at that point.
JohnnyMora: And I had more things to worry about. Like pushing triangle. :(
sirtmagus: I agree with Raiden. It came close to Naruto levels of ZOMG NINJA KEWLNESS but it was fun. And god, how’d you feel about Snake’s journey up MOUNT DOOM?
JohnnyMora: I was moved.
JohnnyMora: But I felt more afraid of getting a game over.
sirtmagus: Same here.
JohnnyMora: They sure did their part to make it seem AGONIZING, though.
JohnnyMora: Even though it didn’t matter at the end and Naomi could’ve (SHOULD’VE) been the one to do it.
sirtmagus: That agony is your triiiumph. The split-screen moments added to the cinematic stylings.

sirtmagus: What was your favorite act?
sirtmagus: Or favorite moment in general?
sirtmagus: Just list your favorites!
JohnnyMora: Act 4
JohnnyMora: In general.
JohnnyMora: Even with the laborious BB fight and the ridiculous ending, it did so many cool things.
JohnnyMora: It also made MGS1 feel really small.
JohnnyMora: I also loved freaking out being chased by Gekko at the end of Act 2.
JohnnyMora: And watching a militia member freak out and run away from battle only to be blown away by an explosion in Act 1.
JohnnyMora: And watching Snake and Liquid punch each other at the same time in Act 5.
JohnnyMora: There’s stuff to love, don’t get me wrong at all.
JohnnyMora: I also loved Jonathan losing to Meryl in the arm wrestling contest.
sirtmagus: lol
sirtmagus: Forgot about that.
sirtmagus: MGS4 was a grand experience and did a lot of surprising things. The most surprising and engaging would have to be Act 4, for sure.
JohnnyMora: I mean, those flashbacks?
JohnnyMora: Getting combat highs?
sirtmagus: Did you hear Liquid?
sirtmagus: YES!!
sirtmagus: I really missed Cam Clarke.
sirtmagus: :-D
JohnnyMora: I do, too.
JohnnyMora: Especially when we get the worst of both Liquid and Ocelot.
JohnnyMora: Ocelot’s old raspy face and voice, Liquid’s speechifying and penchant for shirtlessness.
JohnnyMora: Although both Snake and Ocelot look studly for being a billion years old.
sirtmagus: Indeed. Ocelot’s voice is good too, especially that first time you hear him – “Activate it!”
JohnnyMora: Ehhhh.
sirtmagus: But MGS4 would’ve benefited from Cam’s British cartoonishness.
JohnnyMora: Everyone in this game had some gravel to their voice and it just got boring.
sirtmagus: Quinton got boring?
JohnnyMora: Yeahhhhh
sirtmagus: I found myself pleased every time Raiden showed up.
JohnnyMora: I was at first.
JohnnyMora: Then… I stopped giving a damn.
JohnnyMora: Since every time he showed up he was all, “Let me die for you~~”
sirtmagus: Haha. Everyone loves Snake and wants to die.
sirtmagus: Act 3’s style was impeccable.
JohnnyMora: Several times I forgot I was looking at stuff that was completely fabricated.
JohnnyMora: Several times I forgot these weren’t real actors.
JohnnyMora: I mean, damn, I feel that most of the real effort in this game was in trying to squeeze the very last bit of power from the PS3.
JohnnyMora: Eva’s jacket was fuckin’ SHINY.
sirtmagus: And of course, the boss fights and overall fun hiding and shooting makes the game for me. The iPod, also, is one of the coolest additions.
JohnnyMora: I will wait for all the podcasts to be released so I can play the game with them. :3
sirtmagus: Totally. I hope more music is released too.
JohnnyMora: Konami really threw their whole weight behind it and it shows.
JohnnyMora: It just sucks that MGS4 falls apart at the stuff that comes the cheapest.
sirtmagus: Yeahh. It’s comparable to GTA4 that way though that game had a story that was way, way, way, easier to swallow.
JohnnyMora: MGS4 is just so implausible.
JohnnyMora: I’m willing to buy gay military commanders that shoot lightning and spirit enemies and an ancient sniper that can photosynthesize but not half the shit in MGS4.
sirtmagus: Yeah. That is an odd conundrum.
sirtmagus: Is MGS3 still your favorite?
JohnnyMora: Oh hell yes.
JohnnyMora: SCENE all the way.
sirtmagus: I agree.
JohnnyMora: Is MGS4… DREAM?
sirtmagus: So much insane shit happens, it might as well.
sirtmagus: In fact, I’d say that’s gotta be what it is.
JohnnyMora: Boss’ dream, Big Boss’ dream, Zero’s dream, Liquid’s dream…
JohnnyMora: Since none of these cockamamie perfect worlds work.
sirtmagus: Indeed. Isn’t that what Big Boss says at the end? You can’t change the world?
JohnnyMora: I dunno I wasn’t paying close attention.
sirtmagus: How would you rank the games?
JohnnyMora: MGS3, MGS1, MGS2, MGS4
JohnnyMora: Although 2 and 4 could switch at any time.
JohnnyMora: 2 was more successful in its batshit craziness, but at the end of the day it wasn’t a very fun game.
JohnnyMora: MGS4 is a fun game.
JohnnyMora: But how much game is left if you skip the cinemas?
sirtmagus: I was wondering that. With all the loading screens and installations taken into account … hrm.
sirtmagus: I’m honestly not sure how I would rank them.
JohnnyMora: REALLY
JohnnyMora: I’m surprised to see such hesitance from you. |:3
sirtmagus: MGS3 is definitely at the top, but the other three could revolve around each other like a tea cup ride.
JohnnyMora: MGS1 was such a perfect package, though.
JohnnyMora: If it had stopped right there all would have been right with the world.
JohnnyMora: Snake and Otacon gripping onto him tightly, riding off into the sunset.
sirtmagus: Heh. Except for that pesky phone call at the end. Here’s how I see it: MGS2 has its delicious cyberpunk psycho plot, MGS1 is almost as well-balanced as 3, and MGS4 has the best gameplay and freshest coat of paint. There’s enough to love in all of them.
sirtmagus: It’s probably my favorite video game series this side of Mario Bros.
JohnnyMora: It’s been a RIDE, it sure has.
JohnnyMora: Kojima has been our simultaneous benefactor and nemesis.
JohnnyMora: And apparently the voice of God.
sirtmagus: Yeah, I gotta look for that.
sirtmagus: He’s a wiseacre all right.
JohnnyMora: Ever feel like Daffy Duck in that one cartoon?
sirtmagus: Duck Amuck?
JohnnyMora: And Kojima is Bugs Bunny with the pencil? :(
sirtmagus: That’s the perfect analogy.
sirtmagus: So perfect I wish it was mine.
JohnnyMora: Everyone in MGS4 was the little screwball creature.
sirtmagus: Definitely. That explanation alone warrants MGS4 some interest.
sirtmagus: Can we even talk about MGO yet?
JohnnyMora: We’ll have to SNEAK OUT this weekend.
sirtmagus: Good idea. I didn’t have a very pleasant experience so far. Konami’s three-part ID creation and paltry character creation thing didn’t exactly do much to excite me.
JohnnyMora: Yeah.
JohnnyMora: BUT HEY
JohnnyMora: none of the kaleidoscopic plot.
JohnnyMora: Unless you wanna narrate something as we play. :s
sirtmagus: I’d love to. |:3
sirtmagus: So. Last words?
JohnnyMora: It’s good, isn’t it?
JohnnyMora: [dies]
sirtmagus: END. :3


10 Responses to “Metal Gear Solid 4: WTFs of the Patriots”

  1. Brian B Says:

    man too long guys.

  2. Brian B Says:


  3. Chris Bunch Says:

    haha, gotta say i loved this one, especially about the BB Corps and Snake being Roy Batty! keep up the awesome work!

  4. Valkysas Says:

    “JohnnyMora: And I wonder what that rumble trick would’ve been like if Sony hadn’t caved in with the DualShock 3.”
    He yells about there not being any rumble either. I have no dualshock 3.

  5. Jas Says:

    The Mantis part IS different if you have a DS3.

    “JohnnyMora: I loved how this was the ONE time they wanted to use the SIXAXIS and it worked like a charm.”

    They use it in another part. >_>
    Go into a codec convo with Rosemary and jerk the SIXAXIS up and towards you.. keep an eye on her, too. You’ll shit bricks at what the SIXAXIS jerk does. :D

  6. KJ Says:

    JohnnyMora: How did Otacon even GET that important?!

    He’s like the Samwise of MGS.

  7. John Mora Says:

    Share the load~~~

    Wait, if he’s Samwise why wasn’t he carrying Snake through the microwave hallway. \:o

  8. Film Walrus Says:

    I have even more complaints than you about the microwave hallway.

    Like why build one? Wouldn’t a solid lead wall be more effective. Or poison gas? Or ANYTHING more instantaneously lethal and less expensive than microwaves?

    Because if Snake hadn’t already been limping, it would have been a walk (well, run) in the park to get through. Why not just get a running start and barrel through or coast along on a skateboard or wrap yourself in foil(it’s MGS, so they can do crazy shit like that right?)? Or why not send the MKIII on alone, since Snake wasn’t even doing anything useful in the room except rolling around with baby robots.

    And if videogames have taught me anything, its that rooms this important should always have automatic gun turrents that mow down anything that approaches.

    And who maintains the mainframe in there, anyway? You’d need an army of IT guys and presumably they have some way to shut down the microwaves or sneak in through jeffry tubes or port hatches or whatever.

    And why not just shut down the nuclear reactor or wear down the batteries or cut the cables leading into the room or SINK THE SHIP or whatever. The power for that computer has to be coming from somewhere and I don’t think a submarine can run indefinitely.

    But most unrealistic of all was that the room wasn’t filled with dust. A server farm that big would be absolutely coated. I should know.

  9. Year in Review - 2008: It… It… It… Had Its Moments « Grump Factory Says:

    […] 5. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots […]

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